ion
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Post by ion on Jun 30, 2007 12:24:30 GMT -6
What type of plastic (flexilble) pipe could be used for natural gas supply line. I'm sure I have a leak and the old metal pipe is underground and 50+ yrs. old. Seems easier to just go back with a new line than trying to find a leak in the old pipe. Gas bill was $121 last month. This time last year it was around $30.
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Post by ogeezer on Jun 30, 2007 13:49:06 GMT -6
Only plastic pipe that is used to transfer natural gas is specialty yellow CPVC that must be joined using a heat fusion apparatus that is too costly for DIYers and many plumbing supply contractors ... steel pipe is still the best alternative, galvanized pipe is typically utilized but coated seamless steel pipe is the best.
Contact the CPE (Center Point Energy) for suggested pipe specifications & then contact a licensed plumber if the suspected leak is between the meter and house. If suspect leak is beyond meter, CPE is responsible for repair, maintenance, and replacement.
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ion
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Post by ion on Jul 1, 2007 7:00:30 GMT -6
Well, guess I have to go back with the metal pipe. I'm not even sure were to start looking for a leak and not sure I want to get a plumber out here to spend hours trying to find it. Well I got all day today to think about it. Always something.
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Post by ogeezer on Jul 1, 2007 7:49:42 GMT -6
If youre certain there's a leak in the pipe, in most cases gas leak will originate in the house by defective equipment, connectors or lead lines; if house is slab type (i.e concrete foundation) incoming lines are typically copper (sheathed with plastic wrap as line goes thru concrete) but without connectors (meaning continuous run copper tubing). Settling of foundation can crimp copper but likely will not cause leaks, even by corrosion of water + air on copper lines.
Best check the connections to range, oven, water heater, furnace, space heaters, outdoor grill by first cutting off the gas (at meter) and checking for faint sour smell -- an open fire is not the safe way to do that, particularly in confined spaces. There are gas leak sensory meters available (reasonably affordable) for that purpose.
Next, and most important is to check the wall spaces where gas lines run. Typically, the lines may be copper with some sweated (silver soldered) connection tho steel pipe is usually used. Building codes disallow the use of plastic pipe for carrying gaseous materials (nat gas / propane).
It mite be difficult determining where gas lines run inside walls, so some brainstorming mite be needed. Having a copy of the original blueprints probably won't help since these lines (like water lines) and electrical feed-lines are seldom shown, even by "as built" diagrams/skematics.
The primary cause for most in-house gas leaks is not from corrosion but by simply act of driving or screwing wall hangers into the walls. Since most walls have 1/2" sheetrock sandwiching 3-1/2" space, where a gas line up to 1-1/4" in diameter is located, its easy to puncture the line by accident w/out knowing it, especially when driving nails into sheetrock or using screwguns with long-shank, self-tapping screws. With use of gas sensor device, removal of suspect wall hangers may pinpoint the leak location -- again, turn off the gas at the meter & don't smoke or have open flames when doing this.
Houses built on pilings, pier & pads, opposed to concrete slabs, typically utilize galvanized piping runs under the floor joists, sometimes btw floor joists on hangers, and up thru the floor to the gas appliance or equipment. If can gain access to the subfloor confines, are not claustrophobic, and have the gas sensory device, you mite find the suspect gas leaks there. Since such gas lines use threaded connectors (couplings, tees, elbows, etc), check these especially close as the likely leak locations will be there. Also check gas carrying pipe that runs beneath flooring material woods or subfloors, especially where new interior walls or remodeling has been done. Like interior walls, it is easy to puncture a gasline during such installation activities.
Surprisingly, if the remodeling was done by a previous owner, they mite have punctured the line and did not know it, and oddly the nail or screw which punched hole in pipe also acted like a plug to prevent leakage. But over time, specially with house settling or ground heaving + shrinking due to earth movement cause by wet and dry spells, the pin hole plug may have expanded causing a gas leak you suddenly discover you have.
If you are convinced the leak is underground (in line leading from meter to house) don't go to trouble of digging it up and looking for leak location. Leaky lines cannot be satisfactorily repaired, specially those that have been buried for half a century. Cut a new trench (to depth reqd by building code) and install the new lines (also in accorance to building reqds); making necessary sweated connections to incoming house main feed line.
Finding a gas leak is not overly expensive, save the initial cost of the gas sensor, and repairs are mostly covered under homeowner insurance after the deductible (which may also cover the gas sensor cost), but the hardest thing you will have to contend with is patience - have it and the leak source will be eventually discovered.
Good luck!
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ion
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Post by ion on Jul 1, 2007 8:12:03 GMT -6
You have a source for the sensor meter? Appreciate the help.
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Post by ogeezer on Jul 1, 2007 9:24:28 GMT -6
The only one I'd recommend is the Bacharach's Leakator 10 Combustible Gas Leak Detector Item Number: G351 Manufacturer: Bacharach Manufacturer Number: 19-7051 Product Type: Gas Detectors Price: $279.95 Available from: www.allgasdetectors.com having the following specifications: Housing: Molded, three piece ABS plastic in bright yellow color, includes carrying strap Power: Five alkaline C-cells, not provided 30 hours typical life for continuous operation Warm-up Time: Automatic, self check, about ten seconds to operational condition Sensor: Semiconductor type. Five year typical life. Plug-in replacement Probe: Self storing 20 inch flexible probe. Accommodates integral sensor Sensitivity: 20 ppm useable sensitivity (methane) Status indicators: Visual: 10 ultra-bright red LED’s. Audible: Variable speed ticking sound. Earphone available for use in noisy environments. Power-On ultra-bright green LED, Fail ultra-bright yellow LED. Low Battery ultra-bright yellow LED Environments: 23° to 130° F (-5° to 54°C), 10% to 90% relative humidity, non-condensing Dimensions / Weight: Leakator: 18 oz., 8.5” x 2.25” x 1.75” Case: Black HDPE, 17 oz., 10.5” x 7” x 3” Safety Approvals: UL listed, intrinsically safe, for use in Class l, Division 1, Groups A, B, C, and D classified areas I use them with my occassional (partime) employer, and they perform magnificantly. The above site has other, less expensive detection devices, but one here is only one I've used and would recommend. Again, good luck.
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ion
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Post by ion on Jul 1, 2007 10:07:16 GMT -6
Thanks a bunch. Looks like what I need and can afford. Trying to find it by sniffing around and the soapy water thing just didn't appeal to me
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ion
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Post by ion on Jul 1, 2007 17:34:50 GMT -6
Think I found it. Will turn the gas back on tomorrow and check it out. The line from the meter seems to be the problem.
Shower was darn cool tonite. I think it was the quickest one I had in a good long time.
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Post by ogeezer on Jul 1, 2007 19:23:31 GMT -6
Good.
Since your house is as you say 50+ years old, in all likelihood, the gas line is probably not over 8-12 inches deep. To locate it, use of a metal detector -- if you are unskilled at dousing using a pair of brass rods -- will help. Most tool rental stores, have such devices available. If not, a friend who goes metal detector prospecting for jewelry or coins is worth giving a call. Use pin stakes (flagged wires) to mark metal line to help when digging in search of gas line.
If you do determine the leak is coming from the line, don't try repairing it. Replace the entire length of line, instead -- its cheapest, easiest way to avoid having other leaks that mite begin once a repair is attempted.
When replacing the entire line, be sure to use pipe dope or teflon tape when making fitting & pipe connections. Good luck!
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ion
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Post by ion on Jul 1, 2007 19:43:18 GMT -6
I have a metal detector (all die hard campers do ;D) but the problem area seems to be as the pipe comes up out of the ground near the house. don't know for sure yet but as I uncovered part of it it sure looked like in was done for. Just the same I'm replacing the whole run.
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Post by ogeezer on Jul 2, 2007 5:52:45 GMT -6
Wise move!
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